Roomba 530 versus generic M288C vacuum robot - help!

[ED209]

Why would they remove that basic bit of functionality in the 5 series, even for the most basic model?

In order to sell more of their more expensive models.

Well, sure, but the 5 series is what, the third or fourth generation? It's just surprising to me that something as basic as scheduling wouldn't be incorporated as a "standard" in all the latest versions of the 'bots by now.

If I bought a 530 at its current price-point and then found out later that earlier versions (4xxx) had scheduling functionality and cost much less, I'd be wearing my WTF face.

[roddenshaw]

Why would they remove that basic bit of functionality in the 5 series, even for the most basic model?

In order to sell more of their more expensive models.

Well, sure, but the 5 series is what, the third or fourth generation? It's just surprising to me that something as basic as scheduling wouldn't be incorporated as a "standard" in all the latest versions of the 'bots by now.

If I bought a 530 at its current price-point and then found out later that earlier versions (4xxx) had scheduling functionality and cost much less, I'd be wearing my WTF face.

It's not *that* unusual for manufacturers to add/remove various features in order to realign a product within the market place. Given the cost, Roomba still offers a great deal of functionality for its price (though not a great deal of reliability).

I wonder if iRobot did any market research regarding the features that consumers want/need that led them to this decision? I certainly know a lot of people who love the idea of Roomba but who don't really want the scheduling functionality - they'd rather press a button each time they wanted the robot to run. It would be gratifying to them to pay less for the robot that removes these features...

[Todemesne]

There's also a Costco at the retail park near Lakeside in Essex I believe. Or at least there was a few years back.

[ED209]

I wonder if iRobot did any market research regarding the features that consumers want/need that led them to this decision?

You're exactly right... I'm sure they did plenty of research, and they'd probably point to the reasons you stated.

But still, I'd think that advancing technologies and leveraged efficiencies in manufacture would dictate that an "old school" feature like scheduling be automatically included on all newer series. I think for the most part, consumers expect a newer series to have all the top-line functionality of the previous series, along with added bells and whistles that make it superior.

Kinda like DVD drives in computers. Once they were a very expensive option... but these days it's virtually impossible to find even the cheapest computer that doesn't have one as standard equipment. No matter if you're going to use it or not!

[kslee]

Sorry, a little off topic, but one last question: does the 530 detect furniture by using the bumper and hitting it at normal speed? I've seen videos and I thought that it has IR furniture detection and it was supposed to decelerate first?

Yes, the 530 has the "light touch bumpers" that detect obstacles and lead to deceleration... None of the 5xx series has fool-proof bumpers, however. They don't see my black stereo equipment, black refrigerator vent, or skinny chair legs. They're great with walls, doors, light cabinets, humans.... and they don't see obstacles that are slightly higher or lower than the sensors, so they will still fail to decelerate for certain things.

[debugger]

I'd think that advancing technologies and leveraged efficiencies in manufacture would dictate that an "old school" feature like scheduling be automatically included on all newer series. I think for the most part, consumers expect a newer series to have all the top-line functionality of the previous series, along with added bells and whistles that make it superior.

I think the scheduling backfired on them with the 4xxx series - they thought people would be willing to pay a fortune for the new streamlined "Scheduler" models, but then people realised that the only advantage these machines had was the scheduling and they could get one of the cheaper models and upgrade it for less!

So the marketing backfired and with the 5xx range they can force the marketplace by deliberately crippling the lower end models.

[fancyfreewv]

There are actually lots of reasons why you want to schedule or not schedule.

* Toys have to be picked up
* My dogs play with my VW/LH and take them outside if I don't pick them up
* You want to clean different parts of the house on different days
* You prefer to watch more closely if you have furniture or other items that the robot catches on regularly but you can't remove them

Those are a few I can think of. Both of mine schedule and have the LH technology but they are not doing that now as I find it more convenient to just turn them on when and let them roam from room to room most of the time.

[roddenshaw]

I have to say that what confuses me most (and irks me a little) is the erratic pricing of the various models that iRobot sells. Whilst I have no problem with them removing/adding features as they see fit (so long as they make clear what is/isn't included) it is incredibly confusing to the consumer to have so many discreet models and a lot of people must miss out on good deals as a result.

[fancyfreewv]

You may not be used to that in the UK but we buy appliances all the time with 5 to 10 model choices within the same manufacturing line. Sometimes it a drastic difference - i.e. analog vs digital controls - or sometimes it's size and features - i.e. refrigerator with larger capacity, freezer size or on the door water and ice. Sometimes it's just an extra charge for a special color.

My own method has been for many years to evaluate the most expensive model of anything I buy which normally has the highest level of features etc, then I go down to the next most expensive and see what has been removed. Normally, you will find that only little used controls are left out and the price differences between the top 3 levels are large.

My washer was an example of this. $100 difference in the model I got from the most expensive and what I gave up was two little used cycles that you could set the digital controls for. I can do that manually now if I wish so I thought the pricing was worth it. Since they are in a closet, I went for the $75 cheaper white vs designer colors.

On the Roomba, the 580 is the same as the 570 and the 560 with more accessories that you might or might not use or need and a different color cover.

[roddenshaw]

You may not be used to that in the UK but we buy appliances all the time with 5 to 10 model choices within the same manufacturing line. Sometimes it a drastic difference - i.e. analog vs digital controls - or sometimes it's size and features - i.e. refrigerator with larger capacity, freezer size or on the door water and ice. Sometimes it's just an extra charge for a special color.

That certainly happens here but it is rare for manufacturers to make a discreet model for one company to sell that has better features than a more expensive model that they sell themselves.

[fancyfreewv]

it is rare for manufacturers to make a discreet model for one company to sell that has better features than a more expensive model that they sell themselves.

I'm a bit confused. I don't understand what you are referring to? If you mean the 550 sold by Costco )which is a warehouse club that you have to pay to belong to) is cheaper than the 560 sold directly by IRobot and others but is basically the same model, it does not have better features just the same ones.

Same thing with 535 which is sold as a proprietary model of the 560 in a different color with no scheduling by HSN. It is cheaper than a 560. It was introduced by them due to their huge market share TV exposure to get it off the ground in September. HSN has lots of manufacturers do that with them to get an "exclusive" model and the manufacturers are all anxious to get spots of that show due to the enormous numbers they can sell in one TV airing and online.

Personally I see no conflict. Some people don't belong to warehouse clubs and some don't shop "blind" for appliances online and prefer a retail store approach.

[roddenshaw]

it is rare for manufacturers to make a discreet model for one company to sell that has better features than a more expensive model that they sell themselves.

I'm a bit confused. I don't understand what you are referring to? If you mean the 550 sold by Costco )which is a warehouse club that you have to pay to belong to) is cheaper than the 560 sold directly by IRobot and others but is basically the same model, it does not have better features just the same ones.

Same thing with 535 which is sold as a proprietary model of the 560 in a different color with no scheduling by HSN. It is cheaper than a 560. It was introduced by them due to their huge market share TV exposure to get it off the ground in September. HSN has lots of manufacturers do that with them to get an "exclusive" model and the manufacturers are all anxious to get spots of that show due to the enormous numbers they can sell in one TV airing and online.

Personally I see no conflict. Some people don't belong to warehouse clubs and some don't shop "blind" for appliances online and prefer a retail store approach.

There are a few examples of what I'm referring too. The 530 is more expensive than the 535 from HSN ($50 more expensive! The 535 is, in fact, the same price as the 510), the 350 is more expensive than HSN's 340, the 530 is more expensive than Costco's 550...

[fancyfreewv]

In the UK or just comparison of US pricing? IRobot's prices are always higher than the retail stores they allow to sell their products. Apparently they don't wish to be in the retail business much.

You get different pricing from any retail outlet that marks their products up as they see fit to cover their costs. I do not see that some of the products are more expensive than their counterparts if you could (and you cannot) compare the exact product at one retailer with another. This is why they intentionally relabel them with a different number scheme. For the uninformed, or for those that do not comparison shop or frequent RoombaReview.com, the product is purchased where they find it.

The 550 is cheaper at Costco than a 560 at large retail outlets and certainly cheaper than the 560 at IRobot. Since the 535 (and I think the 540 from BJ's) is the only model that can be scheduled in the future but not without the WCC, The 535 is an HSN exclusive and a much better deal than the 530 from anywhere. IMHO.

Some of these items are prices due to longer warranties that the retail store is giving and building into their price. Hammacher Schlemmer is an example. They sell the 570 for full price $399 but give you virtually a lifetime warranty. Costco sells the 550 with a longer warranty too if you keep your membership ($50 a year) intact continuously. So you take your choice of places to shop just like any other retail item.

Some prefer discounters and some prefer the big name stores.

Actually, what annoys me more than this is a manufacturer that licenses the appliance to another store and that store rebrands it with their own name. Sears is an example of that one. Whirlpool, Maytag and etc are sold as Kenmore and are the same appliance in most cases.

Sometimes that results in a deceptive (my word) sales tactic too in that the discount stores carry say "Whirlpool" appliances but the main company does not carry the "cheaper" product in their regular line as it is missing features and of a lower quality sometimes and only sold to those stores under private contract. You find this at the "big box" stores such as Wal Mart and KMart.

[Rocketboy]

Regardless of how well it works, it's clearly a knock-off. Is that not enough reason to avoid it like the plague?

The price differencial is huge here.

That makes buying a semi-legal rip-off any better how? Someone is still creating a profit by stealing someone else's hard work.

[roddenshaw]

In the UK or just comparison of US pricing? IRobot's prices are always higher than the retail stores they allow to sell their products. Apparently they don't wish to be in the retail business much.

You get different pricing from any retail outlet that marks their products up as they see fit to cover their costs. I do not see that some of the products are more expensive than their counterparts if you could (and you cannot) compare the exact product at one retailer with another. This is why they intentionally relabel them with a different number scheme. For the uninformed, or for those that do not comparison shop or frequent RoombaReview.com, the product is purchased where they find it.

The 550 is cheaper at Costco than a 560 at large retail outlets and certainly cheaper than the 560 at IRobot. Since the 535 (and I think the 540 from BJ's) is the only model that can be scheduled in the future but not without the WCC, The 535 is an HSN exclusive and a much better deal than the 530 from anywhere. IMHO.

Some of these items are prices due to longer warranties that the retail store is giving and building into their price. Hammacher Schlemmer is an example. They sell the 570 for full price $399 but give you virtually a lifetime warranty. Costco sells the 550 with a longer warranty too if you keep your membership ($50 a year) intact continuously. So you take your choice of places to shop just like any other retail item.

Some prefer discounters and some prefer the big name stores.

Actually, what annoys me more than this is a manufacturer that licenses the appliance to another store and that store rebrands it with their own name. Sears is an example of that one. Whirlpool, Maytag and etc are sold as Kenmore and are the same appliance in most cases.

Sometimes that results in a deceptive (my word) sales tactic too in that the discount stores carry say "Whirlpool" appliances but the main company does not carry the "cheaper" product in their regular line as it is missing features and of a lower quality sometimes and only sold to those stores under private contract. You find this at the "big box" stores such as Wal Mart and KMart.

That was a comparison of US pricing - only the 530 and 560 are available in the UK.

My original point was that consumers must find it difficult to find the best deal since so many discreet models exist at differing price points. When I first decided to buy a 'bot I had to come here to find out what the actual differences were because it was not immediately obvious otherwise. Ultimately, therefore, many consumers must get a bad deal.

[ED209]

Ultimately, therefore, many consumers must get a bad deal.

That's what I'm sayin'!

Mr. Joe Public buys a 530 on a whim, tries it out and gets geeked about its capabilities, then goes on the web and finds out he's screwed for upgrades, and all us 4xxx folks are "automatic" and living large.

iRobot could've included scheduling in the 530 for about the price of a 5 cent ChiCom chip, IMHO. And if they did that, they'd reap further sales from orders for schedulers, VW/LH schedulers, upgrades, etc.

Kinda like an Easter Egg, right?

I don't own a 530 or any 5 model, so my dog's not in this fight.... but from a business perspective, iRobot is doing themselves a big disservice by crippling the 530, especially since they're currently sitting on the shelves side by side with various 4xxx models.

Yeah, maybe someone doesn't want or need Scheduling, but it's a rare bird that walks into their first Roomba purchase who has already figured that out. And after the purchase is made and the limits are realized, then you've got needless returns and bad blood from your customers.

That's what I'm talkin' about.

iRobot needs a CMO. I'd be happy to take on the task....